Visit China

Question:

Our Buddhist brothers will join soon. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam: Welt > By Khaled Schmitt, IOL Correspondent > BERLIN, May 31 (IslamOnline.net) – A German paper reported that the > Vatican has been pumping huge amounts of funds into a very influential > institution of the Catholic Church to halt the spread of Islam across > the world. > In a report headlined "A million against Muhammad", Welt am Sonntag > said Sunday, May 30, that huge amounts of money will be allotted to > the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, a reportedly > secret organization. > The report, prepared by Andreas Englisch, said the organization is now > mainly concerned with stemming the rising reversion to Islam by > tarnishing the image of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). > The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation > between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working > for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added. > The paper said the organization is getting a wide support from world > governments and decision-makers to help it further promote > Catholicism, proselytization and carry out statistics and comparison > studies on the spread of Islam and Christianity in the world. > This marks a change of perception towards the group, which had been > ignored, with Foreign Ministers declining to meet its representatives > since its establishment by Pope Pius VI in 1966-1572, it added. > The pope had wanted to use the congregation for spreading Catholicism > and proselytize other peoples in new methods, the paper said. > Merciless > The German newspaper said that the Congregation for the Evangelization > of Peoples depend on "merciless" administrative methods for its work, > the same the publication likened to those used by army soldiers. > It cited the congregation’s prefect Crescenzio Sepe calling the > members of the organization as "my soldiers". > The word was not uttered randomly, but rather with a significance of > the work of the organization, the paper said, noting that the > congregation directly supervises 1,081 dioceses secretly working in > countries that ban Catholic activities. > The publication named Saudi Arabia, Yemen, China, Vietnam and Cambodia > as some of these countries, saying that 40 per cent of Christians > support the organization’s activities across the world. > It said that 85,000 bishops and priests and 450,000 administrative > workers, all have helped prepare 65,000 priests in 280 courses made > over last years. > Serving this huge number of staffers is "another army" comprising one > million ordinary people, with each earning 30 dollars as a basic > monthly pay in return for moving across towns and villages for > proselytizing the poor and marginalized, the paper averred. > The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said. > Qatar Inauguration > Welt am Sonntag gave an extensive account of the organization’s > schools in Asia and Africa, ways which the paper said are the best for > proselytizing and spreading Catholicism. > The paper said that Cardinal Sepe inaugurated one of these schools > last week in Doha, Qatar, with 4,000 students a third of whom are > Christians. > Sepe, who staged the celebration of John Paul’s 50th anniversary as a > priest in 1996, then said that the school is mainly introducing to > students a high-level education allowing them to be open minded and > unaffected by the stigma on Christianity. > Unlike the Doha school, where forms of proselytizing are avoided in > line with the Arab Gulf country’s laws, other schools are built in > Asian countries – especially India – clearly to turn pupils into > Christians. > A lot of funds is given for the construction of these schools, but the > money is deemed well-invested to pay off  in ending the spread of > Islam, said the paper. > The organization has a budget of 500 million dollars annually, mainly > earmarked for proselytizing and stemming the conversion to Islam, the > paper concluded. > To Read The Article In German, Click Here > http://www.wams.de/data/2004/05/30/284942.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said. > What an typically Christian insidious plan!  Those monsters > will stop at nothing!  It must be stopped! > ROFL. > But to further the conspiracy theories…..and to play imp for the > day….Abu’s original post was deleted from the German server I use. And > there’s lots of catholics in Germany…. > Hmmmm….better get my tinfoil lined ‘helmet’ / colander.

Hmmmm.  Another Papist conspiracy exposed!  Good work! Maybe they’re still sore about Martin Luther.  Hell, the Muslims are still whining about the Crusades :>)

Response:

> The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said. > What an typically Christian insidious plan!  Those monsters > will stop at nothing!  It must be stopped!

ROFL. But to further the conspiracy theories…..and to play imp for the day….Abu’s original post was deleted from the German server I use. And there’s lots of catholics in Germany…. Hmmmm….better get my tinfoil lined ‘helmet’ / colander.

Response:

> Serving this huge number of staffers is "another army" comprising one > million ordinary people, with each earning 30 dollars as a basic > monthly pay in return for moving across towns and villages for > proselytizing the poor and marginalized, the paper averred. > The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said.

This is great news. The muslims are giving billions to support terrorists. About time some money is going to good.

Response:

> The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said.

What an typically Christian insidious plan!  Those monsters will stop at nothing!  It must be stopped!

Response:

Thanks for the good news. The sooner we curtail the religion of hate, the sooner the wanton murder, rape and destruction across the world will decline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam: Welt > By Khaled Schmitt, IOL Correspondent > BERLIN, May 31 (IslamOnline.net) – A German paper reported that the > Vatican has been pumping huge amounts of funds into a very influential > institution of the Catholic Church to halt the spread of Islam across > the world. > In a report headlined "A million against Muhammad", Welt am Sonntag > said Sunday, May 30, that huge amounts of money will be allotted to > the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, a reportedly > secret organization. > The report, prepared by Andreas Englisch, said the organization is now > mainly concerned with stemming the rising reversion to Islam by > tarnishing the image of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). > The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation > between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working > for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added. > The paper said the organization is getting a wide support from world > governments and decision-makers to help it further promote > Catholicism, proselytization and carry out statistics and comparison > studies on the spread of Islam and Christianity in the world. > This marks a change of perception towards the group, which had been > ignored, with Foreign Ministers declining to meet its representatives > since its establishment by Pope Pius VI in 1966-1572, it added. > The pope had wanted to use the congregation for spreading Catholicism > and proselytize other peoples in new methods, the paper said. > Merciless > The German newspaper said that the Congregation for the Evangelization > of Peoples depend on "merciless" administrative methods for its work, > the same the publication likened to those used by army soldiers. > It cited the congregation’s prefect Crescenzio Sepe calling the > members of the organization as "my soldiers". > The word was not uttered randomly, but rather with a significance of > the work of the organization, the paper said, noting that the > congregation directly supervises 1,081 dioceses secretly working in > countries that ban Catholic activities. > The publication named Saudi Arabia, Yemen, China, Vietnam and Cambodia > as some of these countries, saying that 40 per cent of Christians > support the organization’s activities across the world. > It said that 85,000 bishops and priests and 450,000 administrative > workers, all have helped prepare 65,000 priests in 280 courses made > over last years. > Serving this huge number of staffers is "another army" comprising one > million ordinary people, with each earning 30 dollars as a basic > monthly pay in return for moving across towns and villages for > proselytizing the poor and marginalized, the paper averred. > The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 > schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 > others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices > for helping the poor and needy, the paper said. > Qatar Inauguration > Welt am Sonntag gave an extensive account of the organization’s > schools in Asia and Africa, ways which the paper said are the best for > proselytizing and spreading Catholicism. > The paper said that Cardinal Sepe inaugurated one of these schools > last week in Doha, Qatar, with 4,000 students a third of whom are > Christians. > Sepe, who staged the celebration of John Paul’s 50th anniversary as a > priest in 1996, then said that the school is mainly introducing to > students a high-level education allowing them to be open minded and > unaffected by the stigma on Christianity. > Unlike the Doha school, where forms of proselytizing are avoided in > line with the Arab Gulf country’s laws, other schools are built in > Asian countries – especially India – clearly to turn pupils into > Christians. > A lot of funds is given for the construction of these schools, but the > money is deemed well-invested to pay off  in ending the spread of > Islam, said the paper. > The organization has a budget of 500 million dollars annually, mainly > earmarked for proselytizing and stemming the conversion to Islam, the > paper concluded. > To Read The Article In German, Click Here > http://www.wams.de/data/2004/05/30/284942.html

Response:

Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam: Welt By Khaled Schmitt, IOL Correspondent BERLIN, May 31 (IslamOnline.net)

Question:

Iranian-born Vancouver resident crowned Miss World Canada 2003 10/25/03 Canadian Press – National News TORONTO — Nazanin Afshin-Jam has been crowned Miss World Canada 2003 and will travel to China in December to compete for the Miss World title. The 24-year-old Vancouver resident, who was born in Iran and immigrated to Canada several years ago, said it’s her ambition to write and produce documentaries on Third World development issues. Afshin-Jam, who also won the swimsuit award at Wednesday’s night pageant, is a graduate of the University of British Columbia and has studied in France and England. Marie-Andree Poulin, 23, of Ste-Foy, Que., was the first runner-up, while Yolaine Grant, 24, of Ottawa placed third. The Miss World pageant takes place Dec. 6 in the Chinese city of Sanya. *****  Oderint dum metuant! *****

Response:

What would have happened to her if she had worn that swimsuit in Iran?  Do they still cut heads off as punishment for "lewd" conduct?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Iranian-born Vancouver resident crowned Miss World Canada 2003 > 10/25/03 > Canadian Press – National News > TORONTO — Nazanin Afshin-Jam has been crowned Miss World Canada 2003 > and will travel to China in December to compete for the Miss World > title. The 24-year-old Vancouver resident, who was born in Iran and > immigrated to Canada several years ago, said it’s her ambition to > write and produce documentaries on Third World development issues. > Afshin-Jam, who also won the swimsuit award at Wednesday’s night > pageant, is a graduate of the University of British Columbia and has > studied in France and England. > Marie-Andree Poulin, 23, of Ste-Foy, Que., was the first runner-up, > while Yolaine Grant, 24, of Ottawa placed third. > The Miss World pageant takes place Dec. 6 in the Chinese city of > Sanya. > *****  Oderint dum metuant! *****

Response:

> What would have happened to her if she had worn that swimsuit in > Iran?  Do they still cut heads off as punishment for "lewd" conduct?

Tilly —

Response:

Question:

Hi, My friend’s mechanic suggested that he install a platinum vapor injection system into his car.  It’s supposed to save 15-30% on gas.  I find that hard to believe, but wanted to see if anyone has heard of this system or  had any experience with it. How it’s supposed to work:  "As you drive, engine vacuum draws air down the side air tube and into the dispenser [installed by the mechanic] creating bubbles that rise up through the dispenser gathering PVI concentrate.  The bubbles burst creating a vapor through bubble fractionation which is dispensed into the intake manifold through the T-connector installed on your vacuum line.  With platinum, rhodium and rhenium catalysts in the combustion chamber, more complete combustion can occur resulting in a 15-30% mileage increase, a drastic reduction in toxic emissions and a cleaner running, longer lasting engine." Any comments is welcome, and thanks in advance.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >My friend’s mechanic suggested that he install a platinum vapor >injection system into his car.  It’s supposed to save 15-30% on gas.  I >find that hard to believe, but wanted to see if anyone has heard of this >system or  had any experience with it. >How it’s supposed to work:  "As you drive, engine vacuum draws air down >the side air tube and into the dispenser [installed by the mechanic] >creating bubbles that rise up through the dispenser gathering PVI >concentrate.  The bubbles burst creating a vapor through bubble >fractionation which is dispensed into the intake manifold through the >T-connector installed on your vacuum line.  With platinum, rhodium and >rhenium catalysts in the combustion chamber, more complete combustion >can occur resulting in a 15-30% mileage increase, a drastic reduction in >toxic emissions and a cleaner running, longer lasting engine." >Any comments is welcome, and thanks in advance.

This is a scam. If it really worked, don’t you think that at least *one* of the major auto makers would use it? THIS IS A SIG LINE: And, no, I *can’t* type worth a darm.

Response:

Is this the one that "bombards the fuel with turbo-charged, super-injected negative ions", or the one that "electro-magnetizes the fuel atoms, resulting in a massive combustion chamber explosion"? I think the automakers would have done this a long time ago if it were really true. The "Made In China" label should be your first tipoff, and the second one should be the fact that most of these "turbo-super-ion-bombarding" "devices" are nothing more than a straight piece of aluminum.  Look!  You can see right through it!  Space-Age Technology!  <roll eyes> Save your money.

Response:

Question:

Try the travel in Asia newsgroup and you should get better responses.

Response:

Go visit http://regenttour.com/planner/pek  for all your answers for Beijing tour. Enjoy. Jiang. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Also" try rec.travel.asia > J >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for > two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time > (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Also" try rec.travel.asia J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Hello! We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, wind?, etc.) Thanks for your advice! Yours,   Virva

Response:

Cold, the weather is very cold. You will need a parka like jacket. Windy. Earmuffs and things. The Great Wall up to the last stop, of the three stops, and take the left hand side of the wall to climb for a real steep experience  Reading list: Betty Bao Lord:  Spring Moon                               Legacy …or Legends …can’t remember, and her later books See: The Last Emperor film, and then see the Forbidden City of course when you get there, and read Pearl S. Buck’s "The Dowager Empress" for all the intrigue.   See the Sacred Way on the way to the Ming Tombs. For antiques: Li Lui ????? alleys, bring small money, they can not change large bills.    Actually, I had more fun sitting in the MacDonalds in the large high rise shopping mall on the pedestrian shopping street in downtown Beijing, just people watching for about 1 1/2 hours than almost anything, because it was so unlike what I expected to see there.    There is much that is "modern" in Beijing, lots of highrises. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Hello! We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, wind?, etc.) Thanks for your advice! Yours,   Virva

Response:

Cold, the weather is very cold. You will need a parka like jacket. Windy. Earmuffs and things. The Great Wall up to the last stop, of the three stops, and take the left hand side of the wall to climb for a real steep experience  Reading list: Betty Bao Lord:  Spring Moon                               Legacy …or Legends …can’t remember, and her later books See: The Last Emperor film, and then see the Forbidden City of course when you get there, and read Pearl S. Buck’s "The Dowager Empress" for all the intrigue.   See the Sacred Way on the way to the Ming Tombs. For antiques: Li Lui ????? alleys, bring small money, they can not change large bills.    Actually, I had more fun sitting in the MacDonalds in the large high rise shopping mall on the pedestrian shopping street in downtown Beijing, just people watching for about 1 1/2 hours than almost anything, because it was so unlike what I expected to see there.    There is much that is "modern" in Beijing, lots of highrises. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Also" try rec.travel.asia J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Try the travel in Asia newsgroup and you should get better responses.

Response:

Go visit http://regenttour.com/planner/pek  for all your answers for Beijing tour. Enjoy. Jiang. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Also" try rec.travel.asia > J >Hello! >We are gonna fly to Beijing at 10th of February and we’ll stay there for > two >weeks. I’d like to know some good and must see places. We can also take a >train, a cab or a bus somewhere else, if it’s necessary and possible. Also >I’d like to know what’s the weather is in Beijing in that time > (temperature, >wind?, etc.) >Thanks for your advice! >Yours, >  Virva

Response:

Question:

1. Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Answer:  "I would not live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever, then we  would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever." —Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest 2. "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the world, I can’t help but cry. I mean I’d love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies and death and stuff." —Mariah Carey 3. "Researchers have discovered that chocolate produces some of the same reactions in the brain as marijuana. The researchers also discovered other similarities between the two, but = I can’t remember what they are." —Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today Show, August 22 4. "I haven’t committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the = law." —David Dinkins, New York City Mayor, answering  accusations that he = failed to pay his taxes. 5. "Smoking kills. If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very important part = of your life." —Brooke Shields, during an interview to become spokesperson for a = federal anti-smoking campaign. 6. "I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body." —Winston Bennett, Univ. of KY basketball forward 7. "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime = rates in the country." —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC 8. "We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." — Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks 9. "I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president." —Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents. 10. "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese." —Former French President Charles De Gaulle 11. "That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, = and I’m just the one to do it." —A Congressional Candidate in Texas 12. "It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the = impurities in our air and water that are doing it." —Former U S. Vice-president Dan Quayle 13. "Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public = mind." —General William Westmoreland And last but not least-a parting word from Dan Quayle: 14. "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."         :O)  Mary Lynn (mlh)  (O:  :O)  "Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most"  :O)                            (remove ma in email address)

Response:

These are great, I will have to pass them along to family and friends. Jeannette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 1. Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? > Answer:  "I would not live forever, because we should > not live forever, because if we were supposed to live > forever, then we  would live forever, but we cannot live > forever, which is why I would not live forever." > —Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest > 2. "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving > kids all over the world, I can’t help but cry. I mean I’d > love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies > and death and stuff." > —Mariah Carey > 3. "Researchers have discovered that chocolate produces > some of the same reactions in the brain as marijuana. > The researchers also discovered other similarities between the two, but = > I can’t remember what they are." > —Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today Show, August 22 > 4. "I haven’t committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the = > law." > —David Dinkins, New York City Mayor, answering  accusations that he = > failed to pay his taxes. > 5. "Smoking kills. If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very important part = > of your life." > —Brooke Shields, during an interview to become spokesperson for a = > federal anti-smoking campaign. > 6. "I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body." > —Winston Bennett, Univ. of KY basketball forward > 7. "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime = > rates in the country." > —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC > 8. "We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." > — Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks > 9. "I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. > We are the president." > —Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents. > 10. "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese." > —Former French President Charles De Gaulle > 11. "That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, = > and I’m just the one to do it." > —A Congressional Candidate in Texas > 12. "It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the = > impurities in our air and water that are doing it." > —Former U S. Vice-president Dan Quayle > 13. "Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public = > mind." > —General William Westmoreland > And last but not least-a parting word from Dan Quayle: > 14. "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." >         :O)  Mary Lynn (mlh)  (O: >  :O)  "Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most"  :O) >                            (remove ma in email address)

Response:

These are great — sent them along to several friends Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 1. Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? > Answer:  "I would not live forever, because we should > not live forever, because if we were supposed to live > forever, then we  would live forever, but we cannot live > forever, which is why I would not live forever." > —Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest > 2. "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving > kids all over the world, I can’t help but cry. I mean I’d > love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies > and death and stuff." > —Mariah Carey > 3. "Researchers have discovered that chocolate produces > some of the same reactions in the brain as marijuana. > The researchers also discovered other similarities between the two, but = > I can’t remember what they are." > —Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today Show, August 22 > 4. "I haven’t committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the = > law." > —David Dinkins, New York City Mayor, answering  accusations that he = > failed to pay his taxes. > 5. "Smoking kills. If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very important part = > of your life." > —Brooke Shields, during an interview to become spokesperson for a = > federal anti-smoking campaign. > 6. "I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body." > —Winston Bennett, Univ. of KY basketball forward > 7. "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime = > rates in the country." > —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC > 8. "We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." > — Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks > 9. "I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. > We are the president." > —Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents. > 10. "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese." > —Former French President Charles De Gaulle > 11. "That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, = > and I’m just the one to do it." > —A Congressional Candidate in Texas > 12. "It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the = > impurities in our air and water that are doing it." > —Former U S. Vice-president Dan Quayle > 13. "Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public = > mind." > —General William Westmoreland > And last but not least-a parting word from Dan Quayle: > 14. "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." >         :O)  Mary Lynn (mlh)  (O: >  :O)  "Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most"  :O) >                            (remove ma in email address)

Response:

ROFLMAO These were too funny….I sent them on to my sister and a co-worker. — K.C. Washington State in the beautiful Columbia River Gorge

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 1. Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? > Answer:  "I would not live forever, because we should > not live forever, because if we were supposed to live > forever, then we  would live forever, but we cannot live > forever, which is why I would not live forever." > —Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest > 2. "Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving > kids all over the world, I can’t help but cry. I mean I’d > love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies > and death and stuff." > —Mariah Carey > 3. "Researchers have discovered that chocolate produces > some of the same reactions in the brain as marijuana. > The researchers also discovered other similarities between the two, but = > I can’t remember what they are." > —Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today Show, August 22 > 4. "I haven’t committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the = > law." > —David Dinkins, New York City Mayor, answering  accusations that he = > failed to pay his taxes. > 5. "Smoking kills. If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very important part = > of your life." > —Brooke Shields, during an interview to become spokesperson for a = > federal anti-smoking campaign. > 6. "I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body." > —Winston Bennett, Univ. of KY basketball forward > 7. "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime = > rates in the country." > —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC > 8. "We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." > — Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks > 9. "I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. > We are the president." > —Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents. > 10. "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese." > —Former French President Charles De Gaulle > 11. "That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, = > and I’m just the one to do it." > —A Congressional Candidate in Texas > 12. "It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the = > impurities in our air and water that are doing it." > —Former U S. Vice-president Dan Quayle > 13. "Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public = > mind." > —General William Westmoreland > And last but not least-a parting word from Dan Quayle: > 14. "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." >         :O)  Mary Lynn (mlh)  (O: >  :O)  "Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most"  :O) >                            (remove ma in email address)

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Question:

Just an interesting observation. Air China’s (i.e. from the PRC) advertisement on a Chinese newspaper (the San Francisco’s edition of Sing Tao newspaper on Jan. 30, 1999) features a picture of the Lockheed SR-71 (sorry if I misspelled). Now, I did not know that Air China has a fleet of these American-made spy planes. And if so, it must provide the fastest service between the U.S. and China. Though I doubt there are first class seats. Just a thought.

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Air China definitely doesn’t have any SR-71’s, but that Ameco hanagr in Beijing is big enough to hide a lot of ‘em in… =D Air China’s fleet (from http://www.airchina.com.cn/): 8 B737-300 4 B747SP 2 B747-200 Combi 5 B747-400 Combi 5 B747-400 6 B767-200ER 4 B767-300 3 A340-300 2 B747-200F -Preston PS- Their service from SFO is pretty direct; they fly 744’s 3 times weekly (I think) to SHA, continuing to PEK. MU (China Eastern) also flies MD-11’s SFO-PEK and SFO-SHA nonstop. AFAIK, most of the other Chinese connections from SFO pass through NRT, SEL, HKG, TPE, KIX, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just an interesting observation. Air China’s (i.e. from the PRC) advertisement > on a Chinese newspaper (the San Francisco’s edition of Sing Tao newspaper on > Jan. 30, 1999) features a picture of the Lockheed SR-71 (sorry if I > misspelled). Now, I did not know that Air China has a fleet of these > American-made spy planes. And if so, it must provide the fastest service > between the U.S. and China. Though I doubt there are first class seats. > Just a thought.

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>PS- Their service from SFO is pretty direct; they fly 744’s 3 times >weekly (I think) to SHA, continuing to PEK. MU (China Eastern) also >flies MD-11’s SFO-PEK and SFO-SHA nonstop. AFAIK, most of the other >Chinese connections from SFO pass through NRT, SEL, HKG, TPE, KIX, etc.

Via TPE, you’re kidding, aren’t you?  Anyway, I have seen ads of Taiwan’s China Airlines (CI) in a US-published, Chinese-language newspaper telling China-bound passengers to fly CI via TPE *and* HKG because CI’s cabin crew speak Mandarin Chinese (or, Putonghua).  If I were to go to China from the US, CI would not even be on my list of consideration.  Their reputation is already bad enough, the conections would be horrendous, too.

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> Just an interesting observation. Air China’s (i.e. from the PRC) advertisement > on a Chinese newspaper (the San Francisco’s edition of Sing Tao newspaper on > Jan. 30, 1999) features a picture of the Lockheed SR-71 (sorry if I > misspelled). Now, I did not know that Air China has a fleet of these > American-made spy planes. And if so, it must provide the fastest service > between the U.S. and China. Though I doubt there are first class seats. > Just a thought.

I was privately touring the Museum of Flight in Seattle with an executive from All Nippon.  The docent (who was also the bartender!) described the characteristics of the SR-71 they have there.  Something like NY to LA in 1 hr 45min.  The NH exec and I joked that it would be hard to make costs with only one passenger.  ;-) Steve

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> SNIP > Via TPE, you’re kidding, aren’t you?  Anyway, I have seen ads of Taiwan’s > China Airlines (CI) in a US-published, Chinese-language newspaper telling > China-bound passengers to fly CI via TPE *and* HKG because CI’s cabin > crew speak Mandarin Chinese (or, Putonghua).  If I were to go to China > from the US, CI would not even be on my list of consideration.  Their > reputation is already bad enough, the conections would be horrendous, > too.

SFO-TPE-HKG is fairly direct, and HKG is technically China now. Heh heh heh… This routing on CI/Eva etc. has good connection times, too. I forgot about the lack of direct flights from TPE to the PRC, so you’ve got me there. =D I agree that connecting to mainland China (PRC) would be easier through one of the other places I mentioned in my earlier post, but I can’t comment on CI’s quality of service as I haven’t flown on them (yet). -Preston

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writes: >__hi everyone >__curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the >__registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as >__well as the silverware ?

I don’t think I know anyone who DID get *all* their china and flatware (and crystal).  Of course, it depends on how many guests you have and how much they are willing and able to spend on a gift, and on how expensive your tastes are, where you register and how readily available your pattern is.  I do know a few people who were able to pretty much complete their china by returning other things (i.e., they received twelve crystal bowls and exchanged ten or eleven of them for more place settings or a serving piece), and most people I know received, as we did, enough to serve a dinner on.  But everyone expects to "fill in" additional pieces or place settings over the years. We’ve ended up with eleven of twelve place settings and two "basic" serving pieces — that’s counting the two dinner plates and two bread plates we already owned (bought when Emporium went out of business).  We used exchange credits for two additional cups, saucers, and salad plates. We also have ten (of twelve) place settings of flatware (gold-accented stainless, not silver), of which eight are from my parents.  And some serving pieces. And we received only two stems of our crystal (which is a somewhat expensive pattern and not all the stores carry it), but used cash gifts to buy more so that we now have six wine glasses and six water goblets. We’ll probably buy more each anniversary or something until we have twelve. Turns out our friends like Crate & Barrel better than Macys.  :-)  We received every last item from the C&B registry, plus several random things I think people bought when they went shopping only to discover that everything on the registry had already been purchased — including a $50 gift certificate.  I guess we’ll be doing some holiday shopping at C&B. Holly (& Ken) 8/25/96

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__hi everyone __curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the __registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as __well as the silverware ? Hi!     I registered at three different places for 12 place settings each of my china, my silver, and my crystal.  I got all the crystal and silver, and 8 place settings of the china.  I returned the extra silver and crystal for china, and ended up with 9 place settings of china.    BTW, china, crystal and silver was all I registered for.  I wanted that, and I figured I could buy towels, etc. cheaply at Wal-Mart.   Beth

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>hi everyone >curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the >registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as >well as the silverware ?

We registered for 12 place settings of both our formal and casual china, 12 place settings of flatware, several serving pieces, 12 highballs, and 12 wine glasses. We received 10 place settings of both our formal and casual, an oval platter of our formal, and oval platter and vegetable bowl of our casual, 13 place settings of our flatware (we exchange the extra setting for serving pieces), all our highballs, and 10 wine glasses. Best wishes, Karmela

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hi everyone curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as well as the silverware ?

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 hi everyone  curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the  registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as  well as the silverware ? Having followed this conference for over 2 yrs. I can safely say that MOST couples did not get all or most of the china they registered for, but this seems to vary with geography, cost of the registry items, number of showers and # of invited wedding guests.  You may want to keep a list of the things you really wanted but did not receive for your parents to give you over the next few years for birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, etc.   Best,  gloria p.

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> hi everyone > curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the > registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as > well as the silverware ?

I did not receive all my china, but I registered for two very expensive patterns. I also registered for two patterns of crystal. I got 2 stems in one pattern, but 33 goblets in the other pattern. I got all my china (in one pattern) when I returned 25 goblets. (Darling husband surprised me with other pattern as a gift.) Silver was inherited and flatware was given over the years as mother thought I would never marry. I personally don’t know of more than a handful of couple who received all their desired china/crystal/silver unless it was an inexpensive pattern. Like others, my mother blesses me with additional serving pieces for anniversary and holiday gifts. Gail

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>hi everyone >curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the >registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as >well as the silverware ?

Hi, We received all of our everyday dishes and silverware but very little of our good china and silver.  (3 place settings, creamer, sugar, and teapot, one setting of silver, the serving set, and 8 wine glasses) This did not surprise us at all.  We guessed this would happen when we registered.  Our everyday dishes and silverware were very reasonably priced and available (Pflatzgraf Acadia and Onieda Sanddune).  However, our formal china, silverware, and crystal is expensive.  We chose it because we loved it and plan on collecting it for years to come.  (Royal Doulton Julianne, David Shaw Mon Ami Gold, and Nachtmann Yvonne respectively)  At least our parents have something to give us for the next few Christmases. Juanita (& Chris, who had fun selecting the dishes) May 4, 1996

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: >curious to know if any did not receive all their china listed on the : >registry….12 five piece settings ? any additional server dishes ? as : >well as the silverware ? kwe got half of our registered china sets (4/8), all of our crystal (and then some) and inherited silver.   we returned the china though, after deciding that we didn’t want to store china until we have a house and that with 2 cats, we’d be better off buying other more practical things.   just about EVERYTHING was purchased off our registries (macy’’s, c&b), and a lot of duplicates and in some cases triplicates.   we were very surprised and touched at everyone’s generosity.   on the flip side, one of our bm’s married one of our gm’s 2 weeks ago, and they had hardly ANYTHING purchased off of their registry—none of their china or silver were purchased  and only one of their sets of knives.  now granted, their registry items in general were more expensive, but they got barely half of their cookware  (~9/20 pieces vs our 20/20, eg), and the prices there were similar. i hear they are receiving a lot of vases…..yuck! it’s strange since  we both invited around the same number of people  (250-300) and although our turnout was 2-3 times her turnout…..the vast majority  who didn’t come to our wedding sent us money or a gift  (SURPRISED us bigtime!!) anyways, go figure…. another related issue, i thought it was fascinating how we got about half:half money to gifts.  did other people have the same experience? sheri (&greg) 5/26/96

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Just got back from my shower in Miami – the plane was 2 hours late, and I am exhausted, and have to unpack, but I just had to post a warning. No matter how much your mom insists, don’t let her talk you into packing all your lovely china teapots, coffee cups, and luscious bath gel in glass containers in your suitcases, so that the airline can toss your bags around, as airlines do, and break all your beautiful, unreturnable shower gifts. Actually, not everything broke.  Just about 2/3 of the breakables. : ( Heidi & Aaron October 19, 1996 http://www.cris.com/~heidi8/wedding

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>No matter how much your mom insists, don’t let her talk you into packing >all your lovely china teapots, coffee cups, and luscious bath gel in glass >containers in your suitcases, so that the airline can toss your bags >around, as airlines do, and break all your beautiful, unreturnable shower >gifts.

Ack… i can’t believe this!  Could you tell us which airline?  It sounds like they may be a little rougher than others. My father has managed to bring back 32 place settings of china (2 sets of service for 12 and one set of service for from London in his packed luggage and never lost a single piece to breakage.  This included tea pots, gravy boats, everything. Julie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->KAL 007 was the exact example of a civilian aircraft flown in such a >manner that it got shot down. "Mistaken identity" and "russian error", >though definitely present in that situation, do not constitute a full list >of reasons of that tragic accident. >Wasn’t the trigger-happy attitude of the then-Soviet air command the main >cause of the tragedy? After all, it is not that rare for a civilian >airacraft to stray from its route but shooting down such an aircraft is >not a daily event, fortunately. >Also, Kamtchatka and Sakhalin were not a war zone at the time, unlike >e.g. the Persian Gulf when the Iranian Airbus was shot down by an >American warship. >Vladimir. >Jerzy

     As I recall, there was an American Electronic intelligence plane in the area.  Also, there was a Soviet ICBM launch planned at about the time of the KAL overflight.  The USAF straddled or penetrated their border for years to gain information, and sometime they took extreme exception to this practice.      The nitty gritty details of the Iranian Airbus shootdown reflected poorly on US Navy personnel and equipment, but the real point here is that there are too many assholes in uniforms around the world ready to waste the flying public.

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 >>weren’t the KAL crew repeatedly warned they were in Russian airspace at  >>the time?!  > My understanding is that this was not the case.  > Perhaps someone can  > elaborate.  Oh My God… We actually agree on something.  From what I remember, being it was over 10 years ago, the pilots *said* that they warned the KAL, but apparently they never did.  They also said that the plane was taking "evasive maneuvers" trying to get away from the fighters. Again, this is not true.  The plane was shot from the sky like a sitting duck. — : Fidonet:  Alan Cantu 1:203/8055.69  .. speaking for only myself.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Alan Cantu) writes: >>weren’t the KAL crew repeatedly warned they were in Russian airspace at >>the time?! > My understanding is that this was not the case. > Perhaps someone can > elaborate. > From what I remember, being it was over 10 years ago, the pilots *said* that >they warned the KAL, but apparently they never did.  They also said that the >plane was taking "evasive maneuvers" trying to get away from the fighters. >Again, this is not true.  The plane was shot from the sky like a sitting duck. >– >: Fidonet:  Alan Cantu 1:203/8055.69  .. speaking for only myself.

The pilots (1) made sure that was no Soviet civilian aircraft by attempting to interrogate its transponder; (2) tried to attract the crew attention by firing tracing shells from a gun, to no avail. The fighter planes did not have appropriate equipment on board to attempt a radio connection. No attempt to identify the plane as an international civilian plane (by ground radar interrogation) was made, solely because the S. U. Air Defence was convinced all the way through they were dealing with a military intruder. The fighter pilot who actually downed the 747 seemed to be sincere he had never seen a 747 before and could not visually identify the plane. When the crew tried to correct the course and change the plane’s altitude, the maneuvers were interpreted as an attempt to escape from the interceptors and that cleared the way for shooting down the plane which was within minutes from entry into the international air space. We can argue endlessly on whether it were the ruthless, carnivorous communist militarists eager to claim 260 human lives or the alert military was following its own engagement rules dictated by the uneasy political situation, but the immediate reason still remain several brutal navigational errors of the crew. The U. S. intelligence at that point was not able to effectively follow the situation in real time (the initial intrusion in the Soviet air space occured some 2 hours before the shootdown). The crew seemed to have been completely unaware of the situation until the very end. The western politicians made use of the situation very fast, pumping up the anti-Soviet hysteria in fashion; the Soviet sources seemed to be confessed the civilian plane was yet on a secret spy mission. The FDR was recovered by Soviet search mission and was transferred to South Koreans a couple of years ago; I do not recall any data from it being published, I might very well be wrong. All information here was taken from publicly available sources, both U. S. and Russian, and some of it might of course be not exactly true. Vladimir.

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(Anders Pedersen) writes: >: and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same? >It also depends though.  If a civilian aircraft was to be flown in a manner >that it got shot down, wouldn’t the airline be to blame as much for that as >an accident?  No, it should not go as a bad mark on the statistics for the >type of aircraft (unless there was a mechanical problem that forced it into >a situation where it got shot down).

KAL 007 was the exact example of a civilian aircraft flown in such a manner that it got shot down. "Mistaken identity" and "russian error", though definitely present in that situation, do not constitute a full list of reasons of that tragic accident. Vladimir.

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>KAL 007 was the exact example of a civilian aircraft flown in such a >manner that it got shot down. "Mistaken identity" and "russian error", >though definitely present in that situation, do not constitute a full list >of reasons of that tragic accident.

Wasn’t the trigger-happy attitude of the then-Soviet air command the main cause of the tragedy? After all, it is not that rare for a civilian airacraft to stray from its route but shooting down such an aircraft is not a daily event, fortunately. Also, Kamtchatka and Sakhalin were not a war zone at the time, unlike e.g. the Persian Gulf when the Iranian Airbus was shot down by an American warship. >Vladimir.

Jerzy

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>: KAL 007 was the exact example of a civilian aircraft flown in such a >: manner that it got shot down. "Mistaken identity" and "russian error", >: though definitely present in that situation, do not constitute a full list >: of reasons of that tragic accident. >: Vladimir. >weren’t the KAL crew repeatedly warned they were in Russian airspace at >the time?!

My understanding is that this was not the case.  Perhaps someone can elaborate. RNA

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: Wasn’t the trigger-happy attitude of the then-Soviet air command the main : cause of the tragedy? After all, it is not that rare for a civilian : airacraft to stray from its route but shooting down such an aircraft is : not a daily event, fortunately. : Also, Kamtchatka and Sakhalin were not a war zone at the time, unlike : e.g. the Persian Gulf when the Iranian Airbus was shot down by an : American warship.   Actually, Soviet Union was full of these "military zones" – hundreds of square kilometers were even Russian citizens (like turists) were shot on the spot or at best taken to the KGB.  Kamchatka is itself a huge military base with the entire pacific fleet and other military installations (Alaska is right next door).  Here is what my relative told me who lived there at the time (I am sure it wasn’t "official report").   Several warnings were apperantly issued but as far as I understand only in Russian.  Then they decided to force-land the plane with 4 MIGs.  Two were supposed to come from the sides while the other two from above and below.  However, something went wrong (as it often does in Russia) and the above and below guys never showed up.  So the 007 went on its merry way.  By that time it has flown over all of the secret submarines, etc so the command decided to shot it down rather than attempting to land it again (and probably let them all go).     This is how I was told the story.  The official news, of course, has another opinion, linking the flight number to the famous British agent… —     ( )           CS Student/RA, U. of Utah       (801) 531-9320 .( o ).         >>> The buck doesn’t even slow down here… >>>

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: (Anders Pedersen) writes:

: >: and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same? : >It also depends though.  If a civilian aircraft was to be flown in a manner : >that it got shot down, wouldn’t the airline be to blame as much for that as : >an accident?  No, it should not go as a bad mark on the statistics for the : >type of aircraft (unless there was a mechanical problem that forced it into : >a situation where it got shot down). : KAL 007 was the exact example of a civilian aircraft flown in such a : manner that it got shot down. "Mistaken identity" and "russian error", : though definitely present in that situation, do not constitute a full list : of reasons of that tragic accident. : Vladimir. weren’t the KAL crew repeatedly warned they were in Russian airspace at the time?!

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: > To this, I can think of the following international crashes : > : > Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the   : middle east : > : > Can anybody else add to this?             : i’ll add that you are a moron. : why are you listing what could be considered an act of war as a crash? a   : bit silly, don’t-you-think? would you categorize pan-am 103 (terrorism)   : and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same? funny you didn’t list the Iranian plane shot down over the Gulf…. Joris

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>funny you didn’t list the Iranian plane shot down over the Gulf….

Not so funny when the subject was `Boeing 737 accidents’ and not `Airbus A300 accidents’.

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>Pacific Western Airlines     1983 (?)     Calgary or Edmonton – a fire >British Air Tours       summer 1985   Manchester – engine caught fire on >                                      take off >British Midland              1988 (?)     UK – was the new -400 >Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the middle east >several crashes in India and China in the last couple of years. >Can anybody else add to this?                

I seem to recall hearing about a crash of a Pacific Western 737 at Cranbrook, BC sometime in the 1970s.  My details might be a bit fuzzy, but it seems that the jet crashed at the airport site during a snowstorm as the pilot tried to avoid colliding with a snowplow which was on the runway as the 737 was landing.

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> I seem to recall hearing about a crash of a Pacific Western 737 at > Cranbrook, BC sometime in the 1970s.  My details might be a bit fuzzy, > but it seems that the jet crashed at the airport site during a snowstorm > as the pilot tried to avoid colliding with a snowplow which was on the > runway as the 737 was landing.

This should be one of the classic CRM accidents.  PWA arrived early at Cranbrook and commenced the approach.  The snowplow operator either did not hear the radio calls (Cranbrook is not positively contolled) or if memory serves me the plow operator was also the radio operator, either way he was on the runway clearing it for PWA.  On approach or after touchdown the landing was aborted.  On the go the F/O deployed the thrust reversers instead of retracting flaps to go-around position.  I may be unclear as to the exact sequence of this accident (GKP or others can fill in the gaps) but the result was a B737 attempting a go-around with one or two ‘buckets’ deployed. If in some CRM manual there is a chapter on how not to do a go-around then this accident should be highlighted. — Paul Matthews                                       Ocean Sciences Centre
Tel. (709) 737-2613                              St. John’s, Newfoundland
Fax  (709) 737-3220                                       CANADA  A1C 5S7

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>> Big plane hits ground with a big CRASH asshole!  I meant `accidents’ > as I stated in the first part, but I didn’t realize you were so > sensitive. >i guess i’m a little confused with what you hope to prove or show with   >this thread. the fact that an Iraqi Airways 737 "crashed" says squat about   >the relative safety of the airframe since the mechanism of failure was   >outside the usual causes (poor maintenance, operation, design, or   >weather). if you simply want to list all accidents or crashes or whatever,   >i’m not sure what you can conclude from the list.

Who said I was looking for some big scientific conclusions?  Looking at a list of accidents for the 737, it would be interesting to see exactly how many actually were for reasons such as the Iraqi 737 (that you are so fixated on) and how many were airline/aircraft related safety accidents.

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>> To this, I can think of the following international crashes > Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the   >middle east > Can anybody else add to this?           >i’ll add that you are a moron. >why are you listing what could be considered an act of war as a crash? a   >bit silly, don’t-you-think? would you categorize pan-am 103 (terrorism)   >and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same?

Big plane hits ground with a big CRASH asshole!  I meant `accidents’ as I stated in the first part, but I didn’t realize you were so sensitive.

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> Big plane hits ground with a big CRASH asshole!  I meant `accidents’ > as I stated in the first part, but I didn’t realize you were so > sensitive.

i guess i’m a little confused with what you hope to prove or show with   this thread. the fact that an Iraqi Airways 737 "crashed" says squat about   the relative safety of the airframe since the mechanism of failure was   outside the usual causes (poor maintenance, operation, design, or   weather). if you simply want to list all accidents or crashes or whatever,   i’m not sure what you can conclude from the list. blue skies Nitin Gupta                             MIT NanoStructures Laboratory

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   The 737 has a pretty good safety record, but just how many accidents    have there been anyway?  Clari listed seven 737 accidents in the United    States as follows:    United               Dec 8, 1972     Chicago         43 killed    Air Florida  Jan 13, 1982    Washington      78 killed    Aloha Airlines       Apr 28, 1988    Maui            1 killed    US Air               Sept 20, 1989   New York        2 killed    US Air               Feb 1, 1991     Los Angeles     34 killed    United               Mar 3, 1991     Colorado Springs 25 killed    US Air               Dec 8, 1991     New York        1 killed    To this, I can think of the following international crashes    Pacific Western Airlines     1983 (?)     Calgary or Edmonton – a fire    British Air Tours        summer 1985   Manchester – engine caught fire on                                           take off    British Midland              1988 (?)     UK – was the new -400    Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the middle                                           east    several crashes in India and China in the last couple of years.    Can anybody else add to this?                 A Panamaniam 737-100 or -200 went down over the jungle in Panama on an in-country flight a few years back (late 1980’s I believe). A documentary was made of it – "The Mysterious Crash of Flight 201" (flight number might be wrong). This documentary is an excellent look at the techniques and complexities involved in evaluating the cause of an aircraft crash.  The final analysis on the cause of the crash was either a maintenance-induced or maintenance-didn’t-see loose wire in a wire cluster going to one of the Artificial Horizon indicators, coupled with the pilots’ having selected that particular artificial horizon device to be displayed on both artificial horizon displays, added to the flight being at night with no moon.  The plane banked for a turn, and the artificial horizon stuck; since the turn (as most civilian aircraft turns are) was at 1G, "down" always seemed to be "down", and without the artificial horizon indicator for reference, the pilots were unable to determine the actual attitude of the aircraft.  After a number of increasingly wide swings through the air, the aircraft exceeded a design tolerance and came apart in mid-air.  All aboard were killed; the investigation and cleanup effort was badly hampered by the jungle below. — 11575 Laurel Lake Drive                 +1 404 552 0543 Roswell, GA 30075                       Ask me about MindSpring U.S.A.                                  Internet access in Atlanta!

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        The 737 has a pretty good safety record, but just how many accidents have there been anyway?  Clari listed seven 737 accidents in the United States as follows: United          Dec 8, 1972     Chicago         43 killed Air Florida     Jan 13, 1982    Washington      78 killed Aloha Airlines  Apr 28, 1988    Maui            1 killed US Air          Sept 20, 1989   New York        2 killed US Air          Feb 1, 1991     Los Angeles     34 killed United          Mar 3, 1991     Colorado Springs 25 killed US Air          Dec 8, 1991     New York        1 killed To this, I can think of the following international crashes Pacific Western Airlines     1983 (?)     Calgary or Edmonton – a fire British Air Tours           summer 1985   Manchester – engine caught fire on                                           take off British Midland              1988 (?)     UK – was the new -400 Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the middle east several crashes in India and China in the last couple of years. Can anybody else add to this?            

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> To this, I can think of the following international crashes > Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the   middle east > Can anybody else add to this?              

i’ll add that you are a moron. why are you listing what could be considered an act of war as a crash? a   bit silly, don’t-you-think? would you categorize pan-am 103 (terrorism)   and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same? blue skies Nitin Gupta                             MIT NanoStructures Laboratory

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: > To this, I can think of the following international crashes : > : > Iraqi Airways              late 80s (?)   was shot down (?) in the   : middle east : > : > Can anybody else add to this?             : i’ll add that you are a moron. : why are you listing what could be considered an act of war as a crash? a   : bit silly, don’t-you-think? would you categorize pan-am 103 (terrorism)   : and kal 007 (mistaken identity? russian error?) as crashes just the same?         If you also noted he had a question mark on it.  Let’s see, hmm, could this mean that he wasn’t sure if it was shot down, and therfore included it?  Maybe so somebody that knew for sure could confirm or deny it? It also depends though.  If a civilian aircraft was to be flown in a manner that it got shot down, wouldn’t the airline be to blame as much for that as an accident?  No, it should not go as a bad mark on the statistics for the type of aircraft (unless there was a mechanical problem that forced it into a situation where it got shot down).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I noticed that a lot of people are registering at SM.  This is what we did, >with mixed results.  Make sure you register at C&B or some other store also, >because >(1) Some people will not check to see where you are registered.  C&B will >come immediately to mind when they think of a bridal gift.  I know it’s >expensive and you don’t want your guests to waste money, but the alternative >is an unwanted gift. >(2) Some people who know you are registered at SM may not have an outlet >near them and they may not want to try and mail order. >(3) Your Mom or your fiance’s Mom just may not want to let on that you’re >crass enough to register at SM.  We suspect my fiance’s Mom of doing this. >Every time we talk to her on the phone I tell my husband "ask her if she >told anyone where we were registered, just ask her, go ahead", but so far he >had convieniently forgotten. >Good Luck and may you not end up with two crystal vases, two crystal bowls, >two silver ice buckets and a bunch of "display china" like we did. >  Ewww!  Were you at least able to return things, I hope?

Sadly, no.  And I’m not tellin’ here what’s going to happen to them . The worst thing was a little figurine that came all the way from England. Don’t get me wrong, we were so happy to see these relatives that we took them to dinner a total of three times before the wedding (even after opening the gift!).   >Personally, I’ve HEARD of SM (because of game shows, no less), and I’ve HEARD >of C+B (but have never seen one or been to one); here in the northwest, the >only places I’ve ever heard of people registering are The Bon and REI.  I >know REI opened a store in the DC area; I have NO idea how far the Bon >extends..take that back; I know there’s on in Utah; it must be pretty much >most of the West, at least; does anyone know if there’s any Bon stores >further east?  

I would love to have registered at REI, but I don’t think my husband would have gone for it. Valerie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I noticed that a lot of people are registering at SM.  This is what we did, >with mixed results.  Make sure you register at C&B or some other store also, >because >(1) Some people will not check to see where you are registered.  C&B will >come immediately to mind when they think of a bridal gift.  I know it’s >expensive and you don’t want your guests to waste money, but the alternative >is an unwanted gift. >(2) Some people who know you are registered at SM may not have an outlet >near them and they may not want to try and mail order. >(3) Your Mom or your fiance’s Mom just may not want to let on that you’re >crass enough to register at SM.  We suspect my fiance’s Mom of doing this. >Every time we talk to her on the phone I tell my husband "ask her if she >told anyone where we were registered, just ask her, go ahead", but so far he >had convieniently forgotten. >Good Luck and may you not end up with two crystal vases, two crystal bowls, >two silver ice buckets and a bunch of "display china" like we did.

  Ewww!  Were you at least able to return things, I hope? Personally, I’ve HEARD of SM (because of game shows, no less), and I’ve HEARD of C+B (but have never seen one or been to one); here in the northwest, the only places I’ve ever heard of people registering are The Bon and REI.  I know REI opened a store in the DC area; I have NO idea how far the Bon extends..take that back; I know there’s on in Utah; it must be pretty much most of the West, at least; does anyone know if there’s any Bon stores further east?     I hadn’t even thought about how my relatives on the east coast (not a lot of them, but they are the ones with the most money to spend) were going to know what we wanted.  Maybe I should ask them what store(s) out there they would think appropriate.  I know everyone who lives around here (most of our friends and relatives) will think of the Bon first, though; other people who have lots of relatives out here in the west might want to see about registering there, too, even if you don’t live near one.   -Sandy

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>I would love to have registered at REI, but I don’t think my husband would >have gone for it.

Gee, if my husband had known that one could register at REI, I doubt he would have brooked registering anywhere else.    ;-) —                                                 —  Michal Impressive amounts of material can be accreted in this manner.

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Yes, Crate and Barrel is in the northeast.  Frankly, I always thought they started there. They have a store in Boston, at Copley Place, and in Cambridge, at Harvard Square.  They also have a discount outlet in Woburn, Massachusetts. There may be more stores in New England, but I don’t know offhand. Julian C. Lander

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I keep seeing Crate and Barrel and Service Merchandise mentioned in posts. I live in Seattle, and we don’t have either of those stores in this area.  I had heard of C&B due to catalog sales, but on this newsgroup was where I first heard of SM.  I am mentioning this so that people will recognise that some widely spread out chain stores are not *everywhere*. If you do plan to register at one of them, I do reccomend checking if that store is in all the areas you have guests living in.  Of course, here in Seattle it’s so provincial, that we are still getting around in horse-drawn carriages…  :) On the other hand, I noticed that most of the out of town guests waited until they got here to shop anyway.  After we had registered at a store in my husband’s family’s area.  The people who sent gifts from out of town sent either items they selected themselves, or sent checks (what a pity ).  Only a few out of towner’s purchased at the out of town registry. We did check out Penney’s because they are in most locations, but I was very unimpressed with how they handle registry.  Why bother… We came close to registering at Pier 1 imports – also in most locations.   (For our casual dinnerware and table linens) They were wonderful.  But then we found dinnerware we prefered at another store.  I thought registering was alot of work, so I don’t advocate registering at lots of stores, but I do think registering at a good department store likely to be shopped at by "the relatives" while you are visiting is a good thing to do.  And I’ll also note that of the 2 stores (both with multiple locations) we registered at locally, most of the guests shopped at the one that is in all the major malls.  Sadly, it had the less interesting merchandise.   Oh well … Kaye Trimbath                   *   Data I/O Corporation            *   voice: (206) 867-6230           *

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I noticed that a lot of people are registering at SM.  This is what we did, >with mixed results.  Make sure you register at C&B or some other store also, >because >(1) Some people will not check to see where you are registered.  C&B will >come immediately to mind when they think of a bridal gift.  I know it’s >expensive and you don’t want your guests to waste money, but the alternative >is an unwanted gift. >[other stuff deleted] >Interesting.  I’m from the northeast, and had never heard of Crate & >Barrel before a friend of my fiance’s mentioned that he was registering >there.  Apparently there are stores around the Chicago area, where >he’s from, but when we tried to find a location either in the northeast >or southern Michigan (where we’re living now) we had no luck.  Are >these stores nationwide?

We had to worry about Washington D.C., San Francisco and Chicago.  There are C&B in these locations.   I’m not sure about elsewhere. Valerie

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asks: > Interesting.  I’m from the northeast, and had never heard of Crate & > Barrel before a friend of my fiance’s mentioned that he was registering > there.  Apparently there are stores around the Chicago area, where > he’s from, but when we tried to find a location either in the northeast > or southern Michigan (where we’re living now) we had no luck.  Are > these stores nationwide?

I think the only Crate & Barrel in Michigan is in the Twelve Oaks Mall, in Troy (Detroit area). But they must also have a store in the Boston area; my brother and his wife got me some C&B stuff last Christmas. Last time I looked at a C&B catalogue (at my bro’s house — I don’t get one (yet)), they had a list of all their locations in it. It wasn’t a very long list, though. Maybe 20 stores nationwide. Don’t know if that helps or not.         Clare

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>I noticed that a lot of people are registering at SM.  This is what we did, >with mixed results.  Make sure you register at C&B or some other store also, >because >(1) Some people will not check to see where you are registered.  C&B will >come immediately to mind when they think of a bridal gift.  I know it’s >expensive and you don’t want your guests to waste money, but the alternative >is an unwanted gift.

[other stuff deleted] Interesting.  I’m from the northeast, and had never heard of Crate & Barrel before a friend of my fiance’s mentioned that he was registering there.  Apparently there are stores around the Chicago area, where he’s from, but when we tried to find a location either in the northeast or southern Michigan (where we’re living now) we had no luck.  Are these stores nationwide? We ended up registering ourselves at Service Merchandise too, as the databases across the country are immediately updated once someone makes a purchase from the registry.  One thing to watch out for, though:  when we got our list of choices from them in the mail after we registered, we noticed that many of the items we wanted were either unavailable or discontinued.  (It varies from store to store what they have available, though if they’re about to discontinue something from their catalog, you might have a hard time finding it.) They’ll list substitutes you may want to add to your registry instead.  If we hadn’t noticed this, almost 1/3 of the items we put on our list wouldn’t have shown up on the printout when people went to see what we’d selected.  Almost inevitably, the discontinued items were the least expensive ones, but the prices there are usually still cheaper than elsewhere. Sarah Lynn Lewis (on my fiance’s account) — Pete Nesbeitt               | "And what is good, Phaedrus, Computer Science Department |  And what is not good — Michigan State University   |  Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"

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I noticed that a lot of people are registering at SM.  This is what we did, with mixed results.  Make sure you register at C&B or some other store also, because (1) Some people will not check to see where you are registered.  C&B will come immediately to mind when they think of a bridal gift.  I know it’s expensive and you don’t want your guests to waste money, but the alternative is an unwanted gift. (2) Some people who know you are registered at SM may not have an outlet near them and they may not want to try and mail order. (3) Your Mom or your fiance’s Mom just may not want to let on that you’re crass enough to register at SM.  We suspect my fiance’s Mom of doing this. Every time we talk to her on the phone I tell my husband "ask her if she told anyone where we were registered, just ask her, go ahead", but so far he had convieniently forgotten. Good Luck and may you not end up with two crystal vases, two crystal bowls, two silver ice buckets and a bunch of "display china" like we did. Valerie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hey Gang — >Sorry I didn’t pay more attention to this when the thread went around >before, but I’m wondering what stores are good places to register. I >recall that when this was discussed before, it was mentioned that some >stores, even though they may be "nationwide" chains DO NOT maintain >nationwide registries (the wish list may be available nationwide, but >it’s not necessarily kept updated nationwide when items are purchased). >We’ve got friends and family on both coasts as well as the midwest, >so a nationwide chain would definitely be nice. We just registered at >Crate & Barrel (which DOES keep the purchase record updated nationwide). >But the truth is that I wasn’t really happy with what we had to choose >from (e.g., we didn’t register for plates, etc. — it may have been >the particular Crate & Barrel that was maybe smaller than others). >Please post or send email — I’ll post a summary of whatever mail I >receive. >Thanks! >    Clare

Hi Clare, Crate and Barrel is a good choice in terms of registry, since it is one of the places people think of first and they’re around everywhere.  (I wouldn’t necessarily shop there for myself, however – a little overpriced and faddish).  Besides that the only thing I can think of is to register as many places as possible!  If you go home on a visit, register at a bunch of places.  Register where you live at a bunch of places. We’re in the Chicago area and have relatives on both coasts.  We really liked the selection and prices at Service Merchandise and they have mail order so we registered there.  Then we registered at Crate and Barrel just to be safe.  Most of our friends went to SM.  His younger family members stopped by Crate and Barrel and found out we were registered there and picked presents up there.  His older family members sent us a lot of glass bowls and pitchers and silver things.  My family did the SM thing. The moral of the story is that you can’t always rely on people to check where you are registered, but many times if they shop at a particular store they’ll check to see if you’re on the computer.  Therefore, registering at a few major stores in each area is a good idea. Valerie

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 Just a quick note on the registry posts. Don’t be scared off by small local shops. We registered at a family-owned china/crystal/jewlery store here in Cleveland, and they are very willing to help out-of-towners over the phone. In fact, we’ve already gotten gifts from relatives who ordered everything by phone.  The prices at this particular store were great and the service has been even better, so don’t think you *have* to use only the big-name national stores. —

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>I recommend Service Merchandise.  They update their computers >nationwide and have a good selection of everything.  The only things

I am registering with Service Merchandise also.  Dan and I registered all the expensive, shiny stuff with a mail order china discount store in New Jersey called Nat Shwartz. I REALLY recomend this place.  It is a single store that does mail order, they have a 1-800 number and everyone I spoke with was very polite.  If you are registering, or have a registry question, you’ll talk with Marilyn, she knows all the registry stuff.  When people call to order for you they can talk with anyone there and, since it’s all computerized and in the same building, it is updated very quickly.  They have my china for $70 5pc place setting, including postage and insurance, while Macy’s had it for $105!  If you are hoping for china, crystal, and silver, call them (try 1-800-555-1212 ask for the number) So far, Service Merchandise has been ok, not great, not spectacular, but ok.  I was a little put off by the automated phonbe system but was relieved to know that if you hit 4 for "order from a registry" it asks you to hold and you talk to a person.  Knowing some of my family and they way they speak to answering machines I wouldn’t get any gifts (not that I’m expecting any, that would be pretentious)!  SM has most of the stuff we want at reasonable prices and the big bonus, a real-time-updated NATIONAL database for registries.  With family spread all up the eastern coast, that is the biggest plus.   Joan — Joan C. Maxfield                * "Je Crois que je vais cracher une

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Hey Gang — Sorry I didn’t pay more attention to this when the thread went around before, but I’m wondering what stores are good places to register. I recall that when this was discussed before, it was mentioned that some stores, even though they may be "nationwide" chains DO NOT maintain nationwide registries (the wish list may be available nationwide, but it’s not necessarily kept updated nationwide when items are purchased). We’ve got friends and family on both coasts as well as the midwest, so a nationwide chain would definitely be nice. We just registered at Crate & Barrel (which DOES keep the purchase record updated nationwide). But the truth is that I wasn’t really happy with what we had to choose from (e.g., we didn’t register for plates, etc. — it may have been the particular Crate & Barrel that was maybe smaller than others). Please post or send email — I’ll post a summary of whatever mail I receive. Thanks!         Clare

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Clare Bates Congdon writes: >…I’m wondering what stores are good places to register. I >recall that when this was discussed before, it was mentioned that some >stores, even though they may be "nationwide" chains DO NOT maintain >nationwide registries (the wish list may be available nationwide, but >it’s not necessarily kept updated nationwide when items are purchased).

I’m just now starting the registry process.  I first went to Penney’s, since they’re nationwide.  Ugh!  They were not helpful at all, the worksheet was confusing, and we ended up just walking out. I figure that if I’m going to bring them hundreds of dollars in business, I should get a bit more service. I recommend Service Merchandise.  They update their computers nationwide and have a good selection of everything.  The only things we’re not registering for there are linins, fancy china, and crystal. The best part is, they’re inexpensive.  A carafe I liked at Crate and Barrel was half the price at Service.  I can’t ask friends to spend more than I’d be willing to! Another registry thought…If you register for brand name china or crystal at a nice store, you may be able to return what you get and use the money to buy twice as much at an outlet store.  Of course I realize that this might be considered rather tacky. Robin

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