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Question:

Hi all – I apologize in advance if I am jumping in in the middle of this thread, but I thought I’d just add some basic info, as I have a B.S. degree in plant science and am working on a M.S. in soil chemistry. First, it’s not surprising that the plant nutrient levels vary from location to location, as soils vary extensively for many reasons (temperature, humidity, vegetation, parent material, etc). Also, more "natural" manures (poultry, swine, etc.) contain high salts levels as well.  Additionally, these materials can contain high quantities of toxic metals such as arsenic, depending on what was present in the animals’ feed.  Commercial fertilizers these days usually do not.  From what I could tell, no comparisons were made between commercial fertilizers and manures.  I may be wrong, though. Finally, I’d be interested to know how the 1949 nutirent levels were tested.  Our equipment has improved vastly over the years, and it is possible that we are just better at detecting and reliably quantifying nutrients that we used to be. Any background info would be informative!! Thanks, Chris p.s.  If there are futher questions, please email me and I’ll try to answer them or at least point you in the direction of a reliable source! — Christina Hamilton                      Keeper of the Septimus                 "Cracking toast, Grommit!"

Response:

>I use Super Blue Green Algae, and do believe in the line of products. I >know numerous people who do also. The claim that Cell-Tech makes about >minerals and Soil depletion is a fact and makes alot of sense, just think >about it.

I thought about it.  It only makes sense if the farmers do not renew mineral content in the soil.  If they don’t, the plants won’t grow either.  As one of our contributors noted, fertilizers can be compounded to contain whatever minerals the farmer desires. >The plants we eat require the same number of minerals and >nutrients that we do

Crap.  They only require some of what we do.  Especially in the case of vitamins, they can make things (e.g. vitamin C) that we cannot. > but after years of topsoil erosion –  including irrigation, >overcultivation, and chemical intensive farming – our soil is >exhausted.

I know *I* am exhausted at seeing these same stupid claims over and over. Irrigation may contribute to erosion, but erosion has nothing to do with soil depletion unless you’re claiming that trace minerals are washed out at a greater rate than topsoil as a whole — and if you’re claiming that, let’s see you prove it.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

I use Super Blue Green Algae, and do believe in the line of products. I know numerous people who do also. The claim that Cell-Tech makes about minerals and Soil depletion is a fact and makes alot of sense, just think about it. The plants we eat require the same number of minerals and nutrients that we do, but after years of topsoil erosion –  including irrigation, overcultivation, and chemical intensive farming – our soil is exhausted. Anyone interested can check out my page on the subject at www.eatel.net/~davidc Thanks and here’s to your health! >  I have seen the claim of depleted soil minerals only in an advertisement for > Blue-Green Algae. The manufacturer of these relatively expensive capsules claim > that you need to use their product in order to receive the numerous trace > minerals that formerly had been in farmland soil. >  Comments?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  I have seen the claim of depleted soil minerals only in an advertisement for > Blue-Green Algae. The manufacturer of these relatively expensive capsules claim > that you need to use their product in order to receive the numerous trace > minerals that formerly had been in farmland soil. >  Comments? > ARTIFICIAL FERTILIZER EFFECT ON PLANT NUTRITION by Bernard Jensen > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=089529558X/7043-6084276-187304 > Thanks to what the chemical agriculture industry calls "artificial > manure," supermarket produce appears to be giving today’s Americans more > salt and less nutrition than generally recognized. In the spring of > 1989, Nutrient Testing Laborato-ries, Ltd. (NTL), of Babylon, New York, > ran mineral analysis tests on commercial produce from various regions > around the United States. The results clearly showed dissimilarity in > nu-trient content according to soils of different regions. Sodium > levels, reflecting artificial fertilizer use, were particularly high in > all the commercially grown produce tested. > Using a "wet ash" method, NTL, an independent testing lab, measured the > mineral content of apples, broccoli, carrots, celery, green peppers, > peas, potatoes, red beets, spinach, string beans, and tomatoes purchased > from supermarkets in five states: California, Colorado, Florida, > Massachusetts, and New York. Where the food was grown was noted. Their > test was designed to uncover mineral imbalance in the soil on which > these foods are grown. > First, NTL analyzed the foods for their content of thirteen minerals: > aluminum, boron, calcium, copper, iron, hiagne-sium, manganese, > molybdenum, nitrogen, phosphorus, po-tassium, sodium, and zinc. Then, > they compared parts per million per 3.5 ounce raw portion for each of > the eleven foods. Based on this data, NTL reported that mineral content > in each food category tested varied widely from region to re-gion. For > example, there was three times more phosphorus in California potatoes > compared with New York samples. Flori-da’s tomatoes had eighteen times > more calcium than samples from Massachusetts. > While some foods contained no amounts of certain impor-tant trace > minerals such as boron and zinc, all eleven foods tested contained high > levels of sodium. To compare this to changes over time, NTL used the > famous H. J. Heinz Nutri-tion Chart of 1949. As a result, NTL discovered > that the so-dium content of each food tested has increased substantially > during the last forty years. This recent elevation in sodium, NTL > reports, is likely caused by commercial produce farmers’ dependence on > inorganic fertilizers. These "artificial ma-nures" are highly > concentrated sources of inorganic salts. > The rise in sodium is just one illustration of how plants receive only > what they are given by their care givers. Rather than well-balanced > soil, full of myriad trace elements and minerals, modern soils are > cauldrons of inorganic chemicals made and mixed by chemical companies > and fictitiously called "plant food." Business practices being what they > are, the amounts and ingredients of inorganic fertilizer can vary > widely, contingent upon supply, demand, profit, and eco-nomic > conditions. This, in turn, contributes to the disparity > Wallach > http://www.american-longevity.com/heal/book.htm

Response:

>The rise in sodium is just one illustration of how plants receive only >what they are given by their care givers. Rather than well-balanced >soil, full of myriad trace elements and minerals, modern soils are >cauldrons of inorganic chemicals made and mixed by chemical companies >and fictitiously called "plant food." Business practices being what they >are, the amounts and ingredients of inorganic fertilizer can vary >widely, contingent upon supply, demand, profit, and eco-nomic >conditions. This, in turn, contributes to the disparity >Wallach >http://www.american-longevity.com/heal/book.htm

For factual description of the origin and role of sodic soils and their remediation go to the front lines where the battle is fought by serious farmers on the ground. May I suggest : http://ndsuext.nodak.edu/extnews/procrop/sls/saltnd07.txt                    THE NATURE OF NORTH DAKOTA SALTS       The salts most commonly found in concentrations that affect crop       growth are sodium sulfate (Na2SO4) and sodium chloride (NaCl).       North Dakota’s saline soils are usually a mixture of the two       salts, with sodium sulfate being the most dominant form.       Sodium chloride is the dominant salt in most saline soils of the       world. It accumulates in oceans and in sea water sediments.       Sodium chloride is also the dominant salt in the saline soils of       eastern Grand Forks County. Artesian flow from geologic deposits       with residual sea water has added sodium chloride to shallow       ground water in that area.       Saline soils develop where the evaporation exceeds the growing       season rainfall, and local landscape features accumulate seasonal       runoff to form a water table which at some point rises to less       than 6 feet below the soil surface. The Northern Great Plains       of the United States and Canada have vast areas that meet these       criteria and where saline soils are common.

Response:

>One thing that puzzles me is the lack of zinc in any of the samples. >I know some (all?) plants do need zinc to grow. >     These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. >     "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know >      where to look."  – Jack Douglas

   All plants do.  All cells do.  It’s a basic metal in basic metabolic enzymes.                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

Response:

>  I have seen the claim of depleted soil minerals only in an advertisement for > Blue-Green Algae. The manufacturer of these relatively expensive capsules claim > that you need to use their product in order to receive the numerous trace > minerals that formerly had been in farmland soil. >  Comments?

ARTIFICIAL FERTILIZER EFFECT ON PLANT NUTRITION by Bernard Jensen http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=089529558X/7043-6084276-187304 Thanks to what the chemical agriculture industry calls "artificial manure," supermarket produce appears to be giving today’s Americans more salt and less nutrition than generally recognized. In the spring of 1989, Nutrient Testing Laborato-ries, Ltd. (NTL), of Babylon, New York, ran mineral analysis tests on commercial produce from various regions around the United States. The results clearly showed dissimilarity in nu-trient content according to soils of different regions. Sodium levels, reflecting artificial fertilizer use, were particularly high in all the commercially grown produce tested. Using a "wet ash" method, NTL, an independent testing lab, measured the mineral content of apples, broccoli, carrots, celery, green peppers, peas, potatoes, red beets, spinach, string beans, and tomatoes purchased from supermarkets in five states: California, Colorado, Florida, Massachusetts, and New York. Where the food was grown was noted. Their test was designed to uncover mineral imbalance in the soil on which these foods are grown. First, NTL analyzed the foods for their content of thirteen minerals: aluminum, boron, calcium, copper, iron, hiagne-sium, manganese, molybdenum, nitrogen, phosphorus, po-tassium, sodium, and zinc. Then, they compared parts per million per 3.5 ounce raw portion for each of the eleven foods. Based on this data, NTL reported that mineral content in each food category tested varied widely from region to re-gion. For example, there was three times more phosphorus in California potatoes compared with New York samples. Flori-da’s tomatoes had eighteen times more calcium than samples from Massachusetts. While some foods contained no amounts of certain impor-tant trace minerals such as boron and zinc, all eleven foods tested contained high levels of sodium. To compare this to changes over time, NTL used the famous H. J. Heinz Nutri-tion Chart of 1949. As a result, NTL discovered that the so-dium content of each food tested has increased substantially during the last forty years. This recent elevation in sodium, NTL reports, is likely caused by commercial produce farmers’ dependence on inorganic fertilizers. These "artificial ma-nures" are highly concentrated sources of inorganic salts. The rise in sodium is just one illustration of how plants receive only what they are given by their care givers. Rather than well-balanced soil, full of myriad trace elements and minerals, modern soils are cauldrons of inorganic chemicals made and mixed by chemical companies and fictitiously called "plant food." Business practices being what they are, the amounts and ingredients of inorganic fertilizer can vary widely, contingent upon supply, demand, profit, and eco-nomic conditions. This, in turn, contributes to the disparity Wallach http://www.american-longevity.com/heal/book.htm

Response:

>> I have seen the claim of depleted soil minerals only in an >advertisement for Blue-Green Algae. The manufacturer of these >relatively expensive capsules claim that you need to use their product >in order to receive the numerous trace minerals that formerly had been >in farmland soil.  Comments? >ARTIFICIAL FERTILIZER EFFECT ON PLANT NUTRITION by Bernard Jensen >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=089529558X/7043-6084276-187304

[wasn't he one of those colonic advocates who supposedly lived to some preposterous age?  Or am I confusing him with some other alt.guru?]  Article summary:  Produce (apples, broccoli, carrots, celery, green  peppers, peas, potatoes, red beets, spinach, string beans, and  tomatoes) purchased from supermarkets in five states (California,  Colorado, Florida, Massachusetts, and New York) was tested for  mineral content in 1989.  The mineral content varied depending on where the produce came from.  The produce had considerably more sodium in it than samples tested  back in 1949.  None of it contained any boron or zinc. That’s it.  We aren’t told what the mineral levels were in 1949 or 1989.  We aren’t told if the mineral levels went up or down.  We aren’t told if the 1989 levels were too low.  Why Scudamore thinks this article proves anything at all is beyond me. One thing that puzzles me is the lack of zinc in any of the samples. I know some (all?) plants do need zinc to grow.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

>  I have seen the claim of depleted soil minerals only in an advertisement for > Blue-Green Algae. The manufacturer of these relatively expensive capsules claim > that you need to use their product in order to receive the numerous trace > minerals that formerly had been in farmland soil. >  Comments?

Monsanto and Toxic Fertilizers http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1527/monfert.html THE ORIGIN OF CHEMICAL AGRICULTURE by Bernard Jensen http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=089529558X/7043-6084276-187304 The agri-chemical industry, which utilizes chemicals, not nat-ural methods, in agriculture, was born out of a paper presented in the 1840’s to the British Royal Academy of Sciences by a renowned German chemist. Baron Justus von Liebig,