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Question:

Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the news? This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and due to a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their fields as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered sucker fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The government has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) would you still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) — Dave A

Response:

Humans first always. Any who disagree with that have serious personal problems and are a serious threat to everyone and everything. Extinction of selected species has always been a fact of life that happens whether humans exist here or not. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — The world’s finest spinnerbaits! The next generation in spinnerbaits is finally here. www.secretweaponlures.com                                                  

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the news? > This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and due to > a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their fields > as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered sucker > fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The government > has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil > disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other > anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) would you > still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) > — > Dave A

Response:

Playing the devil’s advocate here for a minute. Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. A Coho can’t pick up and move to another environmental niche. Once they are gone, they are gone forever. A human can move. A human can get a new job, a human can be taught to do other things. When a business has taken 90% of a rescource already and wants the final 10% as well, what will be left? It really boils down to simple greed and convenience. The balance between humans and wildlife will forever become harder and more precarious. Like it or not we have irrevocably changed the face of the planet and the environment. We are now the self made custodians of the planet. Our past performance is not too good on such matters. Extinction happens on this planet as a matter of course. Granted. But humans have accelerated the process hundreds of times. I for one do not want my kids growing up without a Coho, an old growth forest, a whale or a sucker. We all have already missed seeing the great herds of buffalo, flocks of water fowl, the condor, the whooping crane and thousands of others. There are no easy decisions on this issue. Blanket statements one way or the other are obviously incorrect and narrow-minded. Judgments we make today can have profound impacts on the future. We are not masters of nature, we are part of nature. Those that ignore that are doomed to failure as nature will always win. It won’t be quick and it won’t be pretty but nature will survive and carry on. Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the news? > This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and due to > a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their fields > as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered sucker > fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The government > has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil > disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other > anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) would you > still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) > — > Dave A

Response:

Well said.  We must never lose sight of the fact that the earth evolved billions of years before we puny humans learned to walk on our back legs and use tools. We also must understand, if we love nature and want it to be there for our children’s children, we must respect it.  Otherwise, it will go away. —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Playing the devil’s advocate here for a minute. > Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. A Coho can’t pick up > and move to another environmental niche. Once they are gone, they are gone > forever. A human can move. A human can get a new job, a human can be taught > to do other things. When a business has taken 90% of a rescource already and > wants the final 10% as well, what will be left? It really boils down to > simple greed and convenience. > The balance between humans and wildlife will forever become harder and more > precarious. Like it or not we have irrevocably changed the face of the > planet and the environment. We are now the self made custodians of the > planet. Our past performance is not too good on such matters. Extinction > happens on this planet as a matter of course. Granted. But humans have > accelerated the process hundreds of times. > I for one do not want my kids growing up without a Coho, an old growth > forest, a whale or a sucker. We all have already missed seeing the great > herds of buffalo, flocks of water fowl, the condor, the whooping crane and > thousands of others. > There are no easy decisions on this issue. Blanket statements one way or the > other are obviously incorrect and narrow-minded. Judgments we make today can > have profound impacts on the future. We are not masters of nature, we are > part of nature. Those that ignore that are doomed to failure as nature will > always win. It won’t be quick and it won’t be pretty but nature will survive > and carry on. > Dan > Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the news? > This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and due > to > a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their > fields > as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered sucker > fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The government > has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil > disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other > anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) would > you > still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) > — > Dave A

Response:

You are all wrong, I do fish, as I am an avid bass fisherman.  However, the planet is not designed to hold and support close to 6 billion people.  For those who cannot count that is 6 thousand million people.  To put that into perspective, the US has a population of 275 million people.  The rest of mankind lives in other places.  Which means that many of them want to come here.  I have a link attached to this post take a look at it.  Notice where most of the people who can afford electricity live. You are wrong, I an not a wacko, I do however believe there are too many humans on the planet, and all the problems that are related to the farmer/fish issue in Klamath,  Oregon  will only get worse as the world populations grows.  So the next time you go launch your boat and it’s so busy you have to wait 30 to 60 minutes, maybe this population thing will make since. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg Sincerely, Monty

Response:

Monty I still think your trying to tell us not to fish. Why would we care in this forum about over population. Where i launch my boat there is no lineups…ever. Al Have fishing rod…will travel…. Just an  angler

Response:

Indirectly i think the chap is trying to say…..don’t fish.  A statement like that (direct or indirect) would be off topic for this newsgroup. Al Have fishing rod…will travel…. Just an  angler

Response:

I think that we should bet rid of the Wackos that want to tell us what to do and how to live our lives. That would eliminate this clown and his Eco-Freak friends. If you want to be controlled like that, pal, move to China or become a just another barnyard animal. The required mentality is about the same. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — The world’s finest spinnerbaits! The next generation in spinnerbaits is finally here. www.secretweaponlures.com                                                   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have deleted the original post. > As stated before, we have done the most damage to the planet than any other > natural force except for the comet impacts.  I also side with the farmer, > but also understand that the fish is endangered.  I believe we have all made > our decision a long time ago, would you like me to tell you when?  The first > time you let a bass go and started practicing "catch and release".  By > making that decision you made a choice that those fish were more important > than keeping them for your table.  I live near the state where the issue is > being waged, and I don’t necessarly agree with the Judge’s decision, but I > also know we should save those farmers too!  One way is by not having more > than two childred in any one household.  Just replace what will die and we > can maintain a population that is stable.  Write you congresman and demand > that imigration be halted and no new imigrants allowed until we decrese our > population by 20 million people.  This will have immediate benefits. > Not as many cars on the road, which means we will not have to import as much > oil. > Not as many people on the bus/train/plane, so we wont have to import as much > oil. > Not as many people on the road, in the store, at the mall, or on the water, > so there will be more room for the rest of us. > Won’t need as many trees to build houses, apartments, stores, so the > environment will imporve. > Many other benefits.  I will volunteer to be first since I decided a long > time ago, I did not want children.  If you have over two, you are part of > the problem being waged across this country when we have shortages of any > thing, because there are too many humans on this planet and in this country. > Save the planet, don’t have children. > Monty

Response:

> Save the planet, don’t have children.

We can still practice once in a while though, can’t we????? — Homepage of the ROFB Northwoods Classic  http://www.uglybass.com/rofbmp

Response:

I have deleted the original post. As stated before, we have done the most damage to the planet than any other natural force except for the comet impacts.  I also side with the farmer, but also understand that the fish is endangered.  I believe we have all made our decision a long time ago, would you like me to tell you when?  The first time you let a bass go and started practicing "catch and release".  By making that decision you made a choice that those fish were more important than keeping them for your table.  I live near the state where the issue is being waged, and I don’t necessarly agree with the Judge’s decision, but I also know we should save those farmers too!  One way is by not having more than two childred in any one household.  Just replace what will die and we can maintain a population that is stable.  Write you congresman and demand that imigration be halted and no new imigrants allowed until we decrese our population by 20 million people.  This will have immediate benefits. Not as many cars on the road, which means we will not have to import as much oil. Not as many people on the bus/train/plane, so we wont have to import as much oil. Not as many people on the road, in the store, at the mall, or on the water, so there will be more room for the rest of us. Won’t need as many trees to build houses, apartments, stores, so the environment will imporve. Many other benefits.  I will volunteer to be first since I decided a long time ago, I did not want children.  If you have over two, you are part of the problem being waged across this country when we have shortages of any thing, because there are too many humans on this planet and in this country. Save the planet, don’t have children. Monty

Response:

Again playing the devil’s advocate: Let’s say you are suffering from cancer 10 years from now. And they found a cure for it. The chemical could only be obtained from the secretions of a certain sucker fish, now down to the last 5 living specimens because we decided it wasn’t needed. Really not a far fetched example given the vast pharmaceutical value being found in the vanishing rain forests. And again as the other side of the coin. Maybe Stalin is nature’s way of thinning the herd. <G> My point is as yours is. Nature will do fine no matter what we do. No argument there. But will we? Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nature will do just fine without that sucker fish, just like it has done > without dinosaurs. And it would also do fine without the snail darter, or > Joseph Stalin, or Ted Bundy, or . . . > — > Bob Rickard > SECRET WEAPON — The world’s finest spinnerbaits! > The next generation in spinnerbaits is finally here. > www.secretweaponlures.com — > Well said.  We must never lose sight of the fact that the earth evolved > billions of years before we puny humans learned to walk on our back legs > and > use tools. > We also must understand, if we love nature and want it to be there for our > children’s children, we must respect it.  Otherwise, it will go away. > — >    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales. >    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray > > Playing the devil’s advocate here for a minute. > > Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. A Coho can’t pick > up > > and move to another environmental niche. Once they are gone, they are > gone > > forever. A human can move. A human can get a new job, a human can be > taught > > to do other things. When a business has taken 90% of a rescource already > and > > wants the final 10% as well, what will be left? It really boils down to > > simple greed and convenience. > > The balance between humans and wildlife will forever become harder and > more > > precarious. Like it or not we have irrevocably changed the face of the > > planet and the environment. We are now the self made custodians of the > > planet. Our past performance is not too good on such matters. Extinction > > happens on this planet as a matter of course. Granted. But humans have > > accelerated the process hundreds of times. > > I for one do not want my kids growing up without a Coho, an old growth > > forest, a whale or a sucker. We all have already missed seeing the great > > herds of buffalo, flocks of water fowl, the condor, the whooping crane > and > > thousands of others. > > There are no easy decisions on this issue. Blanket statements one way or > the > > other are obviously incorrect and narrow-minded. Judgments we make today > can > > have profound impacts on the future. We are not masters of nature, we > are > > part of nature. Those that ignore that are doomed to failure as nature > will > > always win. It won’t be quick and it won’t be pretty but nature will > survive > > and carry on. > > Dan > > > Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the > news? > > > This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and > due > > to > > > a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their > > fields > > > as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered > sucker > > > fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The > government > > > has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil > > > disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other > > > anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) > would > > you > > > still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) > > > — > > > Dave A

Response:

Nature will do just fine without that sucker fish, just like it has done without dinosaurs. And it would also do fine without the snail darter, or Joseph Stalin, or Ted Bundy, or . . . — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — The world’s finest spinnerbaits! The next generation in spinnerbaits is finally here. www.secretweaponlures.com                                                  

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well said.  We must never lose sight of the fact that the earth evolved > billions of years before we puny humans learned to walk on our back legs and > use tools. > We also must understand, if we love nature and want it to be there for our > children’s children, we must respect it.  Otherwise, it will go away. > — >    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales. >    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray > Playing the devil’s advocate here for a minute. > Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. A Coho can’t pick up > and move to another environmental niche. Once they are gone, they are gone > forever. A human can move. A human can get a new job, a human can be > taught > to do other things. When a business has taken 90% of a rescource already > and > wants the final 10% as well, what will be left? It really boils down to > simple greed and convenience. > The balance between humans and wildlife will forever become harder and > more > precarious. Like it or not we have irrevocably changed the face of the > planet and the environment. We are now the self made custodians of the > planet. Our past performance is not too good on such matters. Extinction > happens on this planet as a matter of course. Granted. But humans have > accelerated the process hundreds of times. > I for one do not want my kids growing up without a Coho, an old growth > forest, a whale or a sucker. We all have already missed seeing the great > herds of buffalo, flocks of water fowl, the condor, the whooping crane and > thousands of others. > There are no easy decisions on this issue. Blanket statements one way or > the > other are obviously incorrect and narrow-minded. Judgments we make today > can > have profound impacts on the future. We are not masters of nature, we are > part of nature. Those that ignore that are doomed to failure as nature > will > always win. It won’t be quick and it won’t be pretty but nature will > survive > and carry on. > Dan > > Have any of you guys been following the Klamath Falls story in the news? > > This is a story about 1500 farmers who need water for their crops and > due > to > > a federal regulation, cannot utilize the water around them for their > fields > > as they have for 7 generations.  The reason is that an endangered sucker > > fish and a threatened coho salmon also require the water.  The > government > > has sided with the fish.  The farmers are practicing non violent civil > > disobedience and using the water anyway.  I am curious as to how other > > anglers feel about this issue.   If you support the farmers (I do) would > you > > still support them if the endangered species was bass?(I would) > > — > > Dave A

Response: