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Not really….. You forget that a home gas furnace, thats installed correctly, will have a means to get air, called combustion air, to the unit. Its basically a means to bring outside air in, to keep the air in the home from being used as its burning, and allowing resulting negative air pressure to bring in cold air from leaks in the home. Older homes were not as tight as today’s, so many times, depending on the area you live in, you will not see such. Also, a furnace has a means to remove the CO2, and CO from the home… Portables do not. Yes, they both burn oxygen, but only one of the two has a means to remove the by-products from the spent fuel. And yes…the portables WILL kill you if used incorrectly. Its not so much the insurance companies, but the simple fact that if you burn fuel, you will get CO and it WILL kill you..its just common sense. We have known this in the trades for years, and while when the units first hit the market, there were no warnings on them, there are now, and its for geed reason. If you find you HAVE to use one indoors, in the home, you will need to have air movement from outdoors and you are really wasting your time. Even the old KeroSun we used to have for the garage that was bought back in the late 80’s had a warning in the owners manual that explained that you needed to crack a window, or have good ventilation in the area you were using the unit… — www.carolinabreezehvac.com www.ebaystores.com/id=19893971 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I own a propane Mr. Heater portable heater. > On the label, it says DO NOT use indoors. > I own a KeroSun kerosene heater.  The label says > DO NOT use indoors. > And, I have seen this on other portable heaters. > Now, my question is this….. > Am I supposed to sit outdoors in a snow drift, and sit next to these > heaters to stay warm?  These labels make no sense. > They claim they burn up oxygen.  Well, I burned natural gas, most of > my life, when I lived in the city, and and my furnace was in the > basement, and used the indoor air to burn.  Now, to me, it seems that > this would be burning up oxygen in the home.  I now burn wood, and my > wood furnace is in my living room.  It too needs oxygen to burn, as > does my backup propane furnace. > So, what is the story here. > Why would portable heaters burn oxygen, when permanent furnaces not. > I agree these portables so not have chimneys, so they must emit some > pollutants that the permanent heating devices dont.  But they all burn > oxygen. > Are these labels just something that the insurance crooks (i mean > agents) require, so they dont have to pay if someone dies? > I have used the Mr.Heater in my camping tent for years, and also in > my home on real cold nights.  Of course, my tent is canvas, not a > suffocating plastic, and my home is old and not real air tight. > I also use the Kerosun in the house, and while it does get a little > smelly in the house, especially if I use fuel oil, instead of > kerosene. > I say this whole thing is a lot of caflooie !!!! > It’s just like when I took a broken bracket from my car trailer hitch > in to a welding shop, and asked them to repair it.  The guy asked me > what it was for.  When I said my trailer hitch, he told me that > insurance would not allow them to fix it, since they would be liable > if it broke.  I looked at the guy, and said "I lied, it’s a bracket > for the cattle gate on my farm".  The guy welded it for me without any > more questions. > Just goes to show that the insurance companies are taking away all our > freedoms.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I own a propane Mr. Heater portable heater. > On the label, it says DO NOT use indoors. > I own a KeroSun kerosene heater.  The label says > DO NOT use indoors. > And, I have seen this on other portable heaters. > Now, my question is this….. > Am I supposed to sit outdoors in a snow drift, and sit next to these > heaters to stay warm?  These labels make no sense. > They claim they burn up oxygen.  Well, I burned natural gas, most of > my life, when I lived in the city, and and my furnace was in the > basement, and used the indoor air to burn.  Now, to me, it seems that > this would be burning up oxygen in the home.  I now burn wood, and my > wood furnace is in my living room.  It too needs oxygen to burn, as > does my backup propane furnace. > So, what is the story here. > Why would portable heaters burn oxygen, when permanent furnaces not. > I agree these portables so not have chimneys, so they must emit some > pollutants that the permanent heating devices dont.  But they all burn > oxygen. > Are these labels just something that the insurance crooks (i mean > agents) require, so they dont have to pay if someone dies? > I have used the Mr.Heater in my camping tent for years, and also in > my home on real cold nights.  Of course, my tent is canvas, not a > suffocating plastic, and my home is old and not real air tight. > I also use the Kerosun in the house, and while it does get a little > smelly in the house, especially if I use fuel oil, instead of > kerosene. > I say this whole thing is a lot of caflooie !!!! > It’s just like when I took a broken bracket from my car trailer hitch > in to a welding shop, and asked them to repair it.  The guy asked me > what it was for.  When I said my trailer hitch, he told me that > insurance would not allow them to fix it, since they would be liable > if it broke.  I looked at the guy, and said "I lied, it’s a bracket > for the cattle gate on my farm".  The guy welded it for me without any > more questions. > Just goes to show that the insurance companies are taking away all our > freedoms.

Not really, a business man, tite wad type, brags on how he saves money by not changing oil in his fleet of truck, recently the county had a broken fire truck pump. he welded it up for the county. found out that there is a federal law against welding this piece of equipment, it should be replaced and not welded… He then bought a new pump part and installed it for the county…… To be really carful the Made in China christmas tree lights have printed on them: For Indoor outdoor use only???  Bought some Junk tools, pliers from the dollar stores to have in the trunk of the car just in case its needed. on the paper label they had the wording, Not to be placed in mouth???  Well I never put pliers in my mouth, i guess they are trying to say it is not for a Dentist, just for messing around the house??? what can you expect for a dollar??? Back to the portable heater: the ones installed in the house should have a vent stack on them, that were the fumes go out the stack and the oxygen comes in, the portable ones dont have anything to get the oxygen in and the fumes out.  I know, about 40 yrs. ago we had heaters in every room, natural gas, there was no vents for anything, but the house was old and you could feel a cool breeze all through the house. no days we have a modern house and its sealed up pretty good, i guess if you light a candle in it the candle would take away the oxygen…..

Response:

 > Just goes to show that the insurance companies are taking away all  > our freedoms.  >         You are right of course and what is more all the fire fighters who have responded to all the fires and carbon monoxide poisonings that these portable heaters cause are just imagining things when they warn that they are not used safely in most homes.  Your home is of course the exception.         The reason for the warning labels is to provide a basis for a defense when your survivors want to sue the heaters manufacturer.  The oxygen that the heaters use up from the air in your home is not the only problem.  The fact that it puts the carbon monoxide, soot, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and all the other products of combustion back into the air that you will breathe is the other one.  If you do not provide sufficient combustion air the two problems become very closely related.  As the amount of oxygen available in the air the heater is using falls the combustion becomes incomplete and the heater gives off larger and larger amounts of carbon monoxide.         There are kerosene and propane fueled cabinet heaters that are vented through the wall.  They take their combustion air through the outer pipe of the vent and exhaust their combustion products through the inner pipe of the vent.  The only thing those units leave in your home is heat.         I have run a number of carbon monoxide poisonings in my service as a fire fighter.  Two of the cases apply directly to the idea that your house is porous enough to supply plenty of oxygen to you and the heater.  In one case the snow had drifted several feet up the walls of the home during a blizzard in the other the home was coated with ice.  In the snow case the occupants had become ill and the mother called an ambulance as the children became sicker.  The responding fire fighter rescuers realized that the problem was CO poisoning and corrected the problem by turning off the portable heater.  After a few hours in the hyperbarric chamber the children were fine.  In the ice storm case the elderly couple was found dead by the police sent to check on their safety after relatives could not reach them by phone.  The entire home was coated in a layer of ice that had made it rather air tight.  A young family living on the same rural property was unharmed because the operating temperature of the vent of their through the wall vented LP heater had kept it free of ice.         I would suggest using CO detectors but I know that wont work.   They would go into alarm too often to tell you that there is carbon monoxide in your home and you will assume they are defective and remove the batteries. — Firefighter/Rescuer Thomas D. Horne speaking for myself and not the Takoma Park Volunteer Fire Department a cooperating agency of the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue Service Maryland Well, we Aren’t no thin blue heroes and yet we aren’t no blackguards too. Just working men and women most remarkable like you.

Response:

Hi, I don’t wanna swap CO poisoning with my freedom, Duh! Why not electric heater? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I own a propane Mr. Heater portable heater. > On the label, it says DO NOT use indoors. > I own a KeroSun kerosene heater.  The label says > DO NOT use indoors. > And, I have seen this on other portable heaters. > Now, my question is this….. > Am I supposed to sit outdoors in a snow drift, and sit next to these > heaters to stay warm?  These labels make no sense. > They claim they burn up oxygen.  Well, I burned natural gas, most of > my life, when I lived in the city, and and my furnace was in the > basement, and used the indoor air to burn.  Now, to me, it seems that > this would be burning up oxygen in the home.  I now burn wood, and my > wood furnace is in my living room.  It too needs oxygen to burn, as > does my backup propane furnace. > So, what is the story here. > Why would portable heaters burn oxygen, when permanent furnaces not. > I agree these portables so not have chimneys, so they must emit some > pollutants that the permanent heating devices dont.  But they all burn > oxygen. > Are these labels just something that the insurance crooks (i mean > agents) require, so they dont have to pay if someone dies? > I have used the Mr.Heater in my camping tent for years, and also in > my home on real cold nights.  Of course, my tent is canvas, not a > suffocating plastic, and my home is old and not real air tight. > I also use the Kerosun in the house, and while it does get a little > smelly in the house, especially if I use fuel oil, instead of > kerosene. > I say this whole thing is a lot of caflooie !!!! > It’s just like when I took a broken bracket from my car trailer hitch > in to a welding shop, and asked them to repair it.  The guy asked me > what it was for.  When I said my trailer hitch, he told me that > insurance would not allow them to fix it, since they would be liable > if it broke.  I looked at the guy, and said "I lied, it’s a bracket > for the cattle gate on my farm".  The guy welded it for me without any > more questions. > Just goes to show that the insurance companies are taking away all our > freedoms. > Not really, a business man, tite wad type, brags on how he saves money > by not changing oil in his fleet of truck, recently the county had a > broken fire truck pump. he welded it up for the county. found out that > there is a federal law against welding this piece of equipment, it > should be replaced and not welded… He then bought a new pump part and > installed it for the county…… > To be really carful the Made in China christmas tree lights have printed > on them: For Indoor outdoor use only???  Bought some Junk tools, pliers > from the dollar stores to have in the trunk of the car just in case its > needed. on the paper label they had the wording, Not to be placed in > mouth???  Well I never put pliers in my mouth, i guess they are trying > to say it is not for a Dentist, just for messing around the house??? > what can you expect for a dollar??? > Back to the portable heater: the ones installed in the house should have > a vent stack on them, that were the fumes go out the stack and the > oxygen comes in, the portable ones dont have anything to get the oxygen > in and the fumes out.  I know, about 40 yrs. ago we had heaters in every > room, natural gas, there was no vents for anything, but the house was > old and you could feel a cool breeze all through the house. no days we > have a modern house and its sealed up pretty good, i guess if you light > a candle in it the candle would take away the oxygen…..

Response:

Hi Send, hope you are having a nice day On 10-Dec-01 At About 01:04:06, Send No Email wrote to All  SNE> I know that the new furnaces have both an air inlet and an exhaust  SNE> outlet, and both are simply PVC pipes.  I still dont understand  SNE> how they can send heated exhaust thru those pipes without melting  SNE> them, but they do.  My point is this.  If those older furnaces  SNE> burnt inside air, how come more people didnt die from burning  SNE> up the oxygen? And, I heat with wood now, and my wood furnace  SNE> takes it’s air from the room, since there is no way to pipe the air  SNE> into it from the outside, unless I were to place it in a special  SNE> room with an outdoor vent. The reason is that the older homes had enough air infiltration for outside so that it was enough for them. ( and then some )in newer homes you will see an air exchanger or more than likely a 90+ furnace vented with pvc. the reason they can be vented with pvc is they have a secondary heat exchanger which wrings much more heat out of them and cools the flue gas down so much that you can vent them that way.  -=> HvacTech2 <=- .. One should always be in love. For that reason one should never marry.       ___ TagDude 0.92